Home » in English » Comments about our Editorial » An ongoing diary
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| reality or... [message #565 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 13:33   |
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09:57pm Jun 22, 2001
reality or...
"I showed this straight picture of the last rays of the day, to my wife Trisha, she looked at it and asked me how I had done this in Photoshop."
Will we lose trust in photographs as digital imaging allows ever easier and seamless manipulation? Will a photographer's credentials and a publication's reputation be even more important in the near future when we look at a photograph and judge it's value as news, information or document?
About one hundred years ago Alfred Stieglitz and the Photo-Secessionists were writing about how photographs ought to look like photographs and painting like paintings. Photography has (had?) it's own inherent characteristics as a medium and photographers were to use them and not try to produce prints that were "painterly".
How is that changing today with digital? For some (as myself) digital is a new "darkroom" and a new way to share and distribute work, it is a series of new tools to better do the type of work we have already been doing.
For others, the manipulation of the image, the time spent in front of the monitor and the pastel colors on watercolor papers seem to have taken them back to the pictorialists that Steiglitz and Weston left behind so long ago.
Just some thoughts and observations...a dialog has to start somewhere..
Peter Calvin
http://www.petercalvin.com
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| globalization [message #566 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 13:35 |
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08:32pm Jun 23, 2001
globalization
"The notion that something is of a specific place in these times of globalization needs to be questioned as much as we question the veracity of photographs in this digital age. "
Certainly that is true, as I am typing on an Apple computer (USA) assembled in Singpore, looking at a Sony monitor, built in Mexico, I use Japanese printers, but put inks from the UK in them and the papers come from all over. My Clark's shoes, by the way, were made in Portugal.
However, I am not sure how important the origins of goods are as compared to globalization's effect on our cultures. If you believe the newspapers, the French fear too many Hollywood movies in their theaters more than designer shoes made in Asia.
It seems that the concern over "globalization", after jobs and economic effects, is the proliferation of the worst of North American (USA) culture: movies, TV, fast food, video game violence, etc. (A friend of a friend came back from a trip through Asia, bragging that he never ate anywhere but MacDonald’s.)
Here in Dallas, on the plains of North Texas, globalization has meant an influx of other cultures, making this a more interesting place to live. We have large Asian, African, Indian and, of course, Hispainic communities. (Hispainics make up about a third of the population, though they hold only 2 of 14 seats on the Dallas City council) It has also meant jobs with companies like Nokia and Fujitsu and Bimbo Bread has bought the oldest independent bakery in North Texas.
I am sure the perspective is different on the other side of the Atlantic.
Peter Calvin
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| Very Interesting [message #567 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 13:36 |
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09:32pm Jun 23, 2001 PST (#3 of 39)
Very Interesting
Pedro:
This work is going to prove very informative and interesting. I almost wrote without reading the editorial as the image forced to my mind a video that I saw on the Internet (yes digital). It was of a person in a large city being hit with a car traveling at high speed. It plowed into him and threw him into the air like a gust of wind blowing paper around. Then on the way down he got hit by the second car that tossed him in the opposite direction. I thought of this immediately upon see the words "Look Right" as he was looking right when he got hit.
I am of course glad that I did read your editorial, however I guess I am stuck in the same old groove. I do agree that there is room for digital and for breaking headlines when the image has to be there immediately before the paper goes to press. I can see a great and specific use of the new medium.
I am not in anyway trying to belittle your work or effort in bringing forth a new area of discussion concerning the immediacy of these images, but quite honestly I could have waited until you got back.
During the 1800s when men still traveled by stage coach across this land called the West, newspapers took three months to get from coast to cost. Because we are all human I can't help but feel that there were copy cat killers in those days also and wonder if the slowing down of the news didn't also help slow down the crime rate.
In our world of immediate self gratification, I want it now syndrome, I can't help but feel that we are missing out on something. I still like the old ways of doing things. I like the feel of real wood furniture, actual paper in my hands when I read a book or newspaper, the smell of a well oiled piece of leather, the smell of gun powder not laser lights.
Are you satisfied Pedro when you go to someone's home and you see beautiful flowers only to realize that they are artificial. Sure, the overall look seems real but do they have value? Do they give off oxygen, do they smell beautiful, are they alive?
For the sake of convenience I agree that sending scanned images over the Internet for publication is quite good. There are many self publishing websites now for those who are willing to invest their money into their work to have it published. But the end result is paper and a book. Something wonderful that you can hold and feel as you sit in your chair or read in bed and fall asleep.
Taking time to accomplish your work means everything. Pushing the limits for speed means nothing. The old masters would not have accomplished the Sixteenth Chapel if a gun was put to their head and they were told faster, faster.
As a creative artist photographing old wonderful buildings with their magnificent structures don't you feel just a little hypocritical when you find it necessary to hurry and capture the image, hurry to send it over the Internet, hurry to have it printed, when the masters of these creations took years to accomplish their same goal. To complete their work to be admired by all people.
I am sure the continuing Diary that you are working on will be very well thought out and I look forward to seeing it. Have a safe and joyful trip.
Bill Griffin
Griffin Freelance Photography
PO Box 66390
Albuquerque, NM 87193-6390
BillsCanon@aol.com
Member: International Freelance Photographers Organization
North American Nature Photography Association
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| Done Deal [message #568 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 13:36 |
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06:58am Jun 24, 2001 PST (#4 of 39)
Done Deal
Digital is a done deal.
There is no more reason to be apologetic (or feel hypocritical) about taking full advantage of it as there is for loading a roll of 36 in your auto focus slr instead of coating your own glass plates. If new tools allow you to create your work in less time, that is no vice. Less time in the darkroom means more time with my family, more time watching my son grow up. More time to read, think and create.
Speed, however, is not the only issue. Although I am in agreement with Mr. Griffin as to the value of the book and the printed page, creating an image digitally or scanning your film does not preclude conventional publication, it only opens more doors. Once in digital form, the image can go anywhere.
Perhaps Mr. Griffin could have waited to read Pedro’s diary, but Pedro asks for a dialogue, daily input from his readers. He is creating a digital 2 way street and, depending on the quantity and quality of feedback he receives, his writing and pictures, or at least the choice of what to publish, will be affected by it. The very idea is it’s immediacy. You can talk back to your book, but the author can’t hear you, and if he could, the book is already finished and in your hands.
If I may speak for myself, I don’t think that the issue is whether or not we ought to work digitally, but rather how best to use this new tool.
Regards,
Peter Calvin
http://www.petercalvin.com
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| Oh Peter [message #569 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 13:38 |
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09:06am Jun 24, 2001
Oh Peter
You are like a little child with a new toy who can't wait to show it off to all and insist that all the other kids play with it. Indeed Pedro did ask for feedback as he is a professional and can accept the thoughts of others as having some value unlike some of the posters here.
Your concept of digital as being a done deal is hogwash. You are living within the depths of your own mind only willing to perceive what you want things to be. Perhaps you are living in a digital fantasy world perceiving images that aren't there. Your computer is running amuck.
My point was simply that there was nothing urgent about sending back images so quickly. The earthquake and volcanic damage that has happened today in Peru and the Philippines will be there for many generations, there is plenty of time to photograph it and present it to the public. The descriptive word I believe in this case would suffice while we await the arrival of the images.
We are in such a rush to hurry the images for no good purpose. How many times have I seen quality work hanging in a museum or art gallery and how many times I have seen the work of commercial photographers hanging on the side of a garbage can after the employee throws out the companies newsletter. Never saw a Michelangelo there.
Bill Griffin
Griffin Freelance Photography
PO Box 66390
Albuquerque, NM 87193-6390
BillsCanon@aol.com
Member: International Freelance Photographers Organization
North American Nature Photography Association
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| Pedro what are you on about [message #570 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 13:41 |
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02:45pm Jun 24, 2001
Pedro what are you on about
Pedro after talking to people who has met you and after looking at your site and trying to get to day four i have decided you are the ali g of the digital imaging art world
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webbster what is this ali g
wat is tis ali gee suuuuuuuusan
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ali g
what has alig got to do with any thing ?????
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| Dear friends... [message #571 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 13:42 |
 Pedro Meyer
Messages: 202
Registered: March 2005 |
Senior Member |
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04:45am Jun 25, 2001
Dear Friends
Many thanks for your feedback, this should become an interesting experience as we move along. Let me just share with you this concern with time that some of you have expressed. As I see it we are living in today's time frame, not that of the Renaissance, therefore comparisons to what happened in earlier periods becomes somewhat of a mute issue. Today is the world ( for better or worse) of multitasking. Our children prove that their minds are quite capable of dealing with several things at the same time, and still "get it". I have a hard time doing this, but I observe never-the-less that this is going on.
The fact that I have to "deliver" every day, is one of discipline, and for me a new one, in that quite often I delayed for what ever reason doing such entries into a diary both in text and with images. I say discipline, because it is very easy to fall into all sorts of rationalizations for not doing it "today".
I agree with you when you write there is nothing "urgent" that would suggest the need for this diary on a specific time frame. That argument can be taken further, there is no need for this diary at all, not now or in the future either. So this time frame of today, is a self imposed problem, not a social one, not one that has anyone in the world holding their breath for the arrival of such news. However, having said this, it could also open up the door for explorations and for sharing on a different level. We are so used to the traditional modes of thinking that we more often than not just make references to what we are familiar with. books, news worthy events in news papers, etc. But what about a new genre, the journal that friends and relatives want to get. These people are indeed looking after every bit of news on a daily basis coming from a loved one. Surely such news are not of particular urgency to a vey wide audience, but we do have the tools today for the delivery for such an ongoing structure.
I tried over the recent past to encourage a number of photographer friends to do just what I am doing, but they, mostly for technical reasons, felt they could not follow through. So I was tempted to explore what I was suggesting should be done, on myself.
I have found the experience quite exciting. This is not too hard to put together, as long as one is disciplined about it all. After all this is the equivalent of taking pictures and then going into the darkroom and printing it all and trying to make good prints, writing a text doing some background researach, and then sending it off to the "printers", and all that on a minuscule time frame. Even responding to your comments is an additional opportunity for exploration as to how this all works, and even if it is possible. Just now, it was either responding to your comments or going out to take pictures. I chose to do both, only on a scaled down version in order to fit them into the non expanding availability of TIME, in spite of what Dr. Einstein had to say, I can not seem to expand time.
Thanks for your involvement, and cheers from London to you all, keep writing.
Pedro
Publisher of ZoneZero
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| roadside greetings [message #572 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 13:45 |
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03:26pm Jun 29, 2001
Hi Pedro
O the pleasure and terrors of globalism, naturally the internet and the possibility of transmitting instantaneously is the most globals of globals with yet unfathomed benefits and pit falls - but here to stay nonetheless
Enjoyed reading week one of your travel diary. I too am working on travel piece of sorts ("Memorabilia") combining short journal-like entries with photos of monuments, cemeteries and such to think about memory and war. I'll send you sampling from it one of these days
Bon voyage
Sylvia
& bon voyage -
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| Happy come back! [message #573 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 13:47 |
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02:13pm Jun 30, 2001 PST (#11 of 39)
Hello Pedro,
I think it's pretty interesting this diary, it gives the sensation of the realtime the "daily news" we see every day at cnn or nbc journals. I belive internet is the medium to keep us "up date".
About the thoughts about digital photo as an technological evolutive step from traditional photography, it amaze me the economic issues about the reduction of costs. Since we have more production, the process of selection and edition gets harder. There won't be a developing time period, even a print and enlargement step could be supressed if the intention is to share the images on the net.
About signification, the results are the same, even we have the chance as photographers to experiment more, and try new tech resources to make our work, the photos are this way to share our experience with others, changing our perception by making bigger horizons. Talk with images, re-inventing the language across the world.
Hoping you and your family be fine,
Best regards from monterre.mx
saturday, June, 2001.
Juanjo Herrera
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| Good work [message #574 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 13:50 |
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05:50am Jul 4, 2001
Pedro,
Just went through you 'ongoing diary'. It was a lot of fun to read and to look at the pictures. It shows how many things we take for granted when we are living 'amongst' it. It needs an outsider to make us notice it. It also showed to me how important it is to write things down, take pictures and to notice things!
Keep up the good work
Hans
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| Hi Pedro [message #575 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 13:51 |
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04:00am Jul 5, 2001
Hi Pedro,
Enjoyed meeting you at Rhubarb and here's my ccontribution to your diary.
best
Victor
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| good to see your keen eye and observations [message #576 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 13:54 |
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10:39am Jul 14, 2001
thankyou Pedro
J
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| Paul's landscape image [message #577 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 13:54 |
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05:17am Jul 15, 2001
A few comments about Paul’s landscape image...and digital imaging.
Paul’s image is a romantic and very theatrical one. My reactions to it are positive. However, in the context of Pedro’s proposed discussion, my first thought was, here is an image created with the help of 21st century tools, but with an 19th century pictorialist’s sensibility.
I wonder what Paul’s intentions were as the author of this image? Is this image an equivalent of Paul’s emotions or ideas? Was the negative or original digital file just raw material for Photoshop? Is it meant to be representative of the place in the photograph? Would we recognize the place if we stood were his tripod was set up? Is he true to his subject matter (or, for that matter, need he be)?
For myself, the question is at what point do you create not a digital photograph, but a digital painting. If Paul has created this shaft of light from the clouds out of whole cloth, perhaps his image is more painting than photograph.
The image leans to the painterly in it’s romanticism. It reminds me of 1930’s films. Alfred Steiglitz and the Photosession put forth the idea that photographs ought to look like photographs, that photographers ought not try to mimic painting. He felt that photographers should use the natural attributes of the medium.
Today, however, we are faced with the digital image and Photoshop, with it’s painting and pen tools, it’s filters and styles. Has part of the Photosession’s argument gone away with the introduction digital imaging?
My own thoughts on this are influenced by the traditions of (North) American landscape photography: William Henry Jackson, Edward Weston, Ansel Adams, etc., as well as the urban social landscape photographers, FSA documentarians such as Walker Evans and Robert Frank’s view of the American landscape bisected by highways and dotted with dinners. (and not to mention a long list of photojournalists) All of these people made images (photographs) that were, to some extent, true to their subject visually.
I was in a place were I buy paper and ink for my printer a few weeks ago when I saw a small still life image on the wall that, from a distance, looked like a watercolor painting. Close up, one could see it was a photograph, printed with pastel colors on uncoated, textured paper. It was such a simple, though lovely, image, I thought, why not just paint it in the first place. Perhaps, like me, the photographer is a lousy painter, but likes this type of image. Does he create in the computer what he can’t with his hands? And is there anything wrong with that? Is it really a photograph or a print made in part with some photographic tools?
For myself, I have embraced the digital tools available, but I continue to try to produce sharp focused, continuous toned, representative images. I guess I want to show people what I have seen in front of my camera, not what I can create on my monitor.
The question, perhaps, is just what is a photograph today.
Regards,
Peter A. Calvin
http://www.petercalvin.com
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| Re: Paul's landscape image [message #578 is a reply to message #577 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 13:55 |
Pedro Meyer
Messages: 202
Registered: March 2005 |
Senior Member |
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10:01am Jul 15, 2001
Dear Peter,
Many thanks for your considered thoughts on Pauls picture. You make the following seminal questions:
Is this image an equivalent of Paul’s emotions or ideas?
Was the negative or original digital file just raw material for Photoshop?
Is it meant to be representative of the place in the photograph?
Would we recognize the place if we stood were his tripod was set up?
Is he true to his subject matter (or, for that matter, need he be)?
Le me start by underlining how tradition plays such an important role in your observations. I am referring to the fact that the picture is in black and white, and alone with this we already have a level of abstraction which would respond to most of your interesting questions. However we have learned to make the conceptual leap from such an abstraction to the "real" thing, as if this could be achieved, not even if it were in color, as we know that no reproduction can come close to the colors found in reality. But yes, we have learned to see a b&w image and view it for the "real".
The shaft of light, interestingly enough you inscribe within a pictorialist tradition if it was not there, and if it was in fact what nature had intended, then it would belong in a tradition closer to realism. I am not so convinced that style can be defined by such differences, "was it there or not".
Again on another question you pose of digital photographs vs digital painting, I suspect that we need to move beyond these definitions, as both of them are anchored in history rather than the more present technologies that impose a new discipline for the creator. With the new tools we are embracing, we also need to explore new definitions and theories about the representations we are producing.
Just consider the fact that now you can push pixels around in ways unimaginable with the chemical based image, so in effect you have traces of the "real" and you can paint with such traces, which would be akin to painting but not really so, as no paint is involved, just traces of reality. Either way you look at it, we end up with something that was neither one or the other. It requires some new concepts, doesn't it?
Your comments about the photograph that looked like a water painting, and your doubts as to it's legitimacy or even definition, are not that far off from what first happened when photography first came on the scene, and most everyone posed questions about it's validity on much the same premises, which also entailed observations about being the product of failed painters.
It could well be that in the future failed painters (or photographers) are those that do not know how to use a computer. Technological changes tend to create havoc with such issues, about that only time will be tell. As we work our way through all these considerations, probably the most important issue has to do with the quality of the image produced. With it's originality, and uniqueness of vision.
Along these lines I am comforted that with all the new tools at hand we enjoy today there is a lot of wiggle roomto come up with great new ideas and visions.
Publisher of ZoneZero
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| Re: Paul's landscape image [message #579 is a reply to message #578 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 13:56 |
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08:15pm Jul 15, 2001
Dear Pedro,
After reading your comments, I wish I had been clearer in my written thoughts. We do not disagree on much. The idea that is bubbling under the surface of all this for me, and perhaps leads me to be less than clear, is that of reality and photography.
Much, if not most, of the work done over photography’s short history is tied to it’s ability to record what is in front of the camera in an accurate and detailed way. How differently we might look at Diego Goldberg’s project if we wondered how much the images had been altered in the computer over the years.
Yes, we can paint with little traces of reality, but how much of reality remains on the monitor? We accept a news photograph as fact, at least in part. Historical and documentary work is anchored in recording reality , although with the photographer’s view point. The great collections of photography are full of images whose very value (and I do not mean monetary) is somehow married to the idea that what is in the photograph was really in front of the camera at the time of exposure. Our preception of what is real in a photograph matters.
Photographs may not be the literal truth. Photographs are made with the point of view of the photographer. We make choices, starting with were to stand with the camera. We are creating our own view of the “reality” in front of our lens. The question I tried to pose (poorly, I confess) was how much can we change that reality with the computer, (or by painting over the image by hand, or cutting and rearranging the image(s) then pasting them on a board) and still say it is a “photograph”. Perhaps you are correct, in that we must get away from traditional terms when we are using these new tools. But what then is a photograph?
I felt that Paul’s image is “pictorial” because of the way it looks, it’s style, the mood in invokes to me. (In fact, I like the image.) The question of the shaft of light had to do with the idea of how the image was created. That is, was the image created primarily in the camera, or in the computer. I suggest that knowing the answer to that question,either way, changes how we respond to the image.
Nor do I think that the little “watercolor” I spoke of is any less valid as a work of art for how it was created. It was, in it’s way, a little jewel. The question in my mind was why use one medium to create work that looks like another? Photography’s real acceptance came as photographers stopped trying to mimic painting and used the inherent characteristics of the medium to create their images. (and ended the failed painter argument) With the digital image and Photoshop, those very characteristics are changing. Will we lose our faith in the photographic image as a reliable document? Is the definition of photography itself changing? If it is, I think that is important because of how we think of photographs culturally and historically.
Right now, though, I have some black and white negatives to scan into Photoshop.
Regards,
Peter A. Calvin
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| Durable Luminous Palette. [message #580 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 13:58 |
Corti, J
Messages: 3
Registered: April 2005 |
Junior Member |
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02:46am Jul 18, 2001
Dear Pedro,
I read Zone Zero about four times a year, maybe five, and usually view and enjoy most things that are new, in totality. Usually late at night when the internet is less clogged on my island. For hours and hours.
Now it is a lot of years since I first discovered the site, which at the time was such a revelation that something with such quality was really on line. It remains the same . Not always in agreement with you, but always with admiration, this is such a pleasure and it just gets better. Your London trip was such good cultural information as well as real entertainment for me as a viewer: And, you used your own photos and your own dialogue, with your digital-techno comments. I felt like the RCA dog, privileged and fascinated, watching rather than listening.
Most of all, I loved your comments on the brick houses, "... I wonder who actually lives better? Someone in one of these homes? Or someone in a poor straw hut in a tropical climate. I know for sure where I would prefer to be...." So do I, I guarantee.
I continue to watch you in my "(poor) shop house in a tropical climate", on an island in the Indian Ocean, a long ways from California where I first saw Zone Zero. I Thank someone for satellites and the internet. I started with one free website at that time, and asked for your comments ie the photography and site style, which you kindly and clearly gave me. I was terrible, transitioning from painting to photography, and staring at Photoshop. Yours were the first instructions anyone had given me, as I was winging it, grabbing experience as I could. It was a while before I realized where the kind words were coming from, my good fortune, and how much sunk in, and still guides me. I have more than a couple dozen functioning websites dealing with material from photography to pharmaceuticals. Probably every site has something I learned from Zone Zero, Flash included. I must say thank you.
More than anything I want to thank you for creating, with your writing, one context I hold so dearly. that of the existence of the "Luminous Palette". The words and the context never left me.
That reference to the monitor changed my life and perception of photography. At the time it was a 14" monitor, leading to a giant 15" Apple monitor, then on and on, bigger and heavier. Now I must smile with the fine, accurate, very large horizontal LCD I use. In this tropical setting, it could seem a bit strange. It doesn't. The same as the instant intercontinental creative milieu you spoke of in your journal.
And it is just the luminous palette. Simply thanks for all of this.
Jim Corti
Pa Tong Kathu
Thailand
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| ok, Pedro Meyer...! [message #581 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 13:59 |
Law, M.C.
Messages: 3
Registered: April 2005 |
Junior Member |
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10:53am Jul 18, 2001
Dear Pedro,
I agree with Mr. Corti...your web page is still wonderful,
and your ongoing dialogue is helpful and almost always
results in my thinking more about the issues you bring
up, but I do not always agree with you either!
(I say this while smiling though, because i also believe
you do this on purpose sometimes..)
I was following you along here on your trip and with the diary
entries when i came to a screeching halt at your comment about
seeing a big photograph in a commercial window in London.
You commented that you thought there is no reason for
small photographs in fine art galleries anymore. I think this is
a downright silly thing for you to say. Maybe if you would have said
"why aren't there more really big pictures, or isn't this wonderful
that the digital era makes printing big so much more accessable..or
something..but to say "all work ought to be so big" is like saying
there is no reason for all women not to have gigantic breasts now because of modern technology. Hmph Pedro! I don't mean to be crude, but when I was a college student, someone in a class repeated this
joke concerning something we were talking about..Question: "Why does a dog lick it self?[down there, you know where] Answer: ... because he can..." In other words, just because something is bigger, doesn't neccessarily make it better. Does it? (that is unless you are working as a corporate head who aspires one day also to be the "head" of an entire country.)
Anyway, happy trails to you and I will enjoy continuing to follow you about on your trip. 
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| Dear Jim and M.C. [message #582 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:00 |
Pedro Meyer
Messages: 202
Registered: March 2005 |
Senior Member |
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01:23pm Jul 18, 2001
I thoroughly enjopy this dialogue, thank you for making it possible. Let me tell you where I write from.
I am sitting on the floor along with a cadre of other Mac enthusiasts (someone forgot the chairs) here at MacWorld in NY city, using the airport currents that emanate from the press room. Steve Jobs just gave a key note presentation which was quite terrible. His digital camera malfunctioned ( some one forgot to charge the batteries...you can tell that he doesn't use the camera very often) so he got upset and threw it at one of his assistants to see what was going on, like these cameras could withstand such abuse, but then when you fly in in your own jet, maybe that is how you use cameras or react like a spoiled brat. That was not very good!
But i digress, the criticism about the big pictures that I wrote about, written by MC, are absolutely justified. He is of course right with regard to my claims about size. They were not meant to dismiss smaller pictures, although I have some doubts about the smaller sizes, and not based on the fact that it can be done bigger, but I don't want to appear to be arguing the point, because indeed his criticism is valid, and I thank him for sharing those views with us.
As to Jim Corti writing from Pa Tongh Kathou, I will just wave a hand of friendship towards him as I sit here on the floor of this hallway, the greetings will have to travel through the legs of all those ( quite a number) walking along this corridor in front of me, while the air waves deliver the signal from this lap top computer on to the airport base towards the press room, and from there somehow to some digital highway in the Pacific. Magic is still happening. I don't have a clue of how all of this works, I just use it.
Publisher of ZoneZero
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| Re: An ongoing diary [message #584 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:03 |
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03:12pm Jul 19, 2001
Hi, I've been reading your diary and taking in some of your images Pedro, and reading the comments in this forum. I sit here in London on a warm and quiet evening wondering what this is about. Why did I stop off here? Why did I read these words? I agree/disagree? What responses are we seeking for our words? Why am I writing this? Do many of us have or can make the time to write more than a few words?
I will ponder these words and photograph tomorrow.
Take care,
Tony
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| Ongoing Forum? [message #585 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:04 |
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11:58am Jul 22, 2001
Hi Pedro
London
Sunday afternoon in London, and have just got back from the Tate Modern.
Picture Diary
Your picture diary has made stimulating viewing for me, and this forum could be a place to discuss the issues you raise, unfortunately I have missed out on you being 'on the road', you may still be recovering from the New York air-conditioned cold, are you planning on keeping this photography 'forum' open for a while? Have you the time?
Forum
The forum feedback also makes interesting reading, Peter Calvin especially making an effort and producing some points that made me stop and ponder.
Interactive Journal
I feel that becoming involved in an interactive journal could be beneficial for all who make the effort to participate. Some problems will arise, but in one way and another we can work through ways of dealing with these issues.
The question is, Pedro, would you be prepared to be the initial 'facilitator/moderator' of this interactive forum or journal?
I'll keep this writing short for now and see what other people have to say.
Tony
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| Re: Ongoing Forum? [message #586 is a reply to message #585 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:05 |
Pedro Meyer
Messages: 202
Registered: March 2005 |
Senior Member |
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07:44pm Jul 22, 2001
Tony,
By all means, we shall be paying attention to any contributions that are added to this forum on an ogoing basis. So feel free to do your part.
Publisher of ZoneZero
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| Diary Forum [message #587 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:06 |
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01:23am Jul 23, 2001
Hi Pedro
Your diary initiative has given me a little inspiration to contribute a diary entry on a regular basis, until the forum closes; next week, month, year? I have bookmarked and incorporated a Zone icon into my navigation bar to click straight into this forum page in the morning. Ideally the diary would reflect an aspect of our every day lives and we could discuss issues that people bring to the diary forum. Topics could range from motivation to Mexico City. That's used up the text space for now. I'll check out the 'Attachment' facility and get into the day.
Tony
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| Egg [message #588 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:07 |
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02:35am Jul 24, 2001
Today began with an egg. It was boiled for 3 minutes and 30 seconds. I photographed it for this dairy. It's an attachment here. Digital photography allows me to record these familiar aspects of my life without a concern for the cost, the issue now is of time, and the value of making this effort. I am not sure why I am writing these words or making a photograph to go with this diary. May be only through doing it can I find out. So onward and see what the next day brings.
Tony
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| Breakfast Egg [message #589 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:09 |
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01:16am Jul 25, 2001
I eat my breakfast egg and wonder about words for my diary. The egg box words say the 6 eggs are organic and free range, they are produced and packaged in the UK by Deans Farm, and are sold through Waitrose for £1.39. The egg cup is made by Philippe Deshouliers in France. The plate has the label 'Rubbermaid' and was bought in Wynn Dixie, Florida. The stainless steel spoon is a souvenir from a British Airways flight. I will think a little longer about words for the diary, now to get into the day.
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| Egg Ending [message #590 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:11 |
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egg : to urge or incite, esp. to daring or foolish acts.
egalitarian : of, or relating to, or upholding the doctrine of the equality of mankind and the desirability of political, social, and economic equality.
Two word meanings from the Collins dictionary, egg and egalitarian.
I think now of photography having an equality of opportunity; making photographs is simple, publishing photographs [on the internet] is relatively simple, and the issue for me is how to value these images. How useful are these images? Who will benefit from them? Can we learn something of ourselves by making photographs ourselves?
The opportunity to contribute to this forum has enabled me to learn something of what it feels like to produce a diary in this way, maybe to become an interactive diary.
It's about time, time to wash up the dishes.
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| Diary [message #591 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:14 |
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12:37am Jul 27, 2001
form of autobiographical writing, a regularly kept record of the diarist's activities and reflections. Written primarily for the writer's use alone, the diary has a frankness that is unlike writing done for publication...
The diary form began to flower in the late Renaissance, when the importance of the individual began to be stressed. In addition to their revelation of the diarist's personality, diaries have been of immense importance for the recording of social and political history.
britannica.com
Maybe exploring an interactive photographic diary online would help us understand each other a little better, and we may even find time to learn something about the values of photography.
The weekend break starts here.
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| Agapanthus [message #592 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:34 |
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02:35pm Jul 30, 2001
Hot days in London. The BBC Weather Centre predicts temperatures in the mid 80s [30s] this week, going into August, and our plants on the window sills and front steps will need watering every day in this heat. The agapanthus is derived from the Greek agape, meaning love, and anthos, flower, and was introduced into Europe during the 17th century, around the same time as Descartes was formulating some Cartesian dream, the influence of these thoughts is beginning to fade as we enter the 21st century. That's probably as true as the picture above. I wonder why reality is so difficult to find on Monday morning.
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| Hi Roger [message #593 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:36 |
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12:24pm Jul 31, 2001
I've been extending my diary writing, and picture taking to a place on the internet, called Zone Zero. It's a very quiet space, somewhere out west, where Pedro, this wise photographer, hangs out. I spend a little time here each week posting a piece of my diary on the editorial forum. Initially I wasn't sure why I was doing this, or why anyone else would bother to do it. So this activity is an exploration of a process, maybe I will gain some insights on the way, and even come up with some answers to why one day.
Take care, Tony
ps. I think when I get my web site going I will start up an interactive diary, need to find out where this 'forum' software comes from though.
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| Regent's Park [message #594 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:37 |
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02:25pm Aug 1, 2001
bathe in the gifted green resort
philosophers enlightened spirit springs
poets hunting paths to nature
people by the way
young yoshino stuns the spring air
eudia in the inner circle rare
tazzas, urns, italian fountains sound
orange fissures of caucassian elm found
charles, oliver, john, humphry
building their aristocratic landscape
backs to the world
elegant white villas in a winter resort
daffodil, crocus, perfumed rose rambles
herons, owls, squeaky sparrows mingle
elephant hawk, red admirals have a ball
hawaiian geese, coots, mallards gather in the pool
the elephants roam
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| Peculiar [message #595 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:38 |
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02:01am Aug 3, 2001
Too many words bouncing around inside my head today.
The photograph is just a feeling without words.
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| Look right [message #596 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:42 |
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02:05pm Aug 9, 2001
Now, if you had grown up in New York, you would always look BOTH WAYS at every pedestrian crossing (especially one-way streets) and again at the yellow line in the middle. That solves the problem for any possible situation in any country.
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| Inspiration and Motivation [message #597 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:43 |
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03:19am Aug 19, 2001
Hi Pedro
The Zone has been quiet for a while. Your diary has been an inspiration for me and helped me focus my own intentions. I have 'written' a diary on and off for most of my life, but producing words that extract a communicative sense for people other than family and close friends is like moving from snapshot photography to photography that has a wider creative purpose. I suppose 'creative' and 'purpose' are the words that I will begin to unravel for my self as I write online more often, and through understanding 'creative' and 'purpose' I will be clearer about my intentions. Your diary project, 'Look Right' and the Zone site itself have inspired me to produce my own photography web site, and it has a 'diary'. I got tonyhallphotography.com up and running at the end of last week and have been sorting out lost links over the weekend. Any feedback will be greatly appreciated. My intention is to use the site to sell cards and prints of my work, to learn something of writing a diary online, and to develop the site as a place to learn and teach something of creative photography. So thank you Pedro and all the people at Zone Zero for being around and sustaining this inspirational Place called Zone Zero.
Tony Hall
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| Welcome diarists [message #598 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:48 |
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03:50am Aug 19, 2001
I have just had a look at the tonyhallphotography.com site and your messages on the forum and hope that you will put all the forum messageson your site. Getting writing and photography together is a process of knowing oneself. Any attempts should be fostered by those around. I hope to put together a more coherent version of my own site, douglasschwab.com, in the near future. The diary format seems ideal for what I wish to do
Sustaining this is the real issue for me. A weekly diary entry is my ambition. I would like to continue this until new year, then assess where I have gone.
Good luck, I am enjoying the photos.
Douglas Schwab
London 19th August 2001
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| "a grand day out", for a month or so... [message #599 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:48 |
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10:19am Mar 26, 2002
Pedro,
I have been following your progress in this internet travel diary venture with great interest. For several months now I have been talking with my family about doing something similar next year.
It seemed at first like a great idea: a Nikon D-1, a Powerbook with a CD burner, a batch of GoLive templates ready for pictures and text, and off you go. Each day for 5 or 6 weeks, you travel about, shooting a story a day, and posting it at night. You let clients know where you are going, in case they need work done there and you work out a link deal with sites like the Digital Journalist or perhaps your Zone Zero so people know about what you are doing. Each day’s post is a little taste of what you saw and photographed. Each day’s take is burned onto a CD along with notes and captions. People can place print orders online to be filled on your return, full length stories can be sent for publication, perhaps a book deal lies ahead. In the end, you create interest in your work, perhaps new assignments on your return, and you and your family have a great experience. (and my wife and son learn Photoshop)
Ah, but the devil is in the details, and in the time available.
Will you always have a good internet connection to upload your day’s piece? Will you have time to shoot, write and build new pages for the site? (If I do this, there won’t be anyone back in Dallas putting the pieces together for me. It will all be done on the road.) At what point do you run out of time, your family run out of patience and will you “hit the wall” physically before the end? What is too ambitious?
The cost of equipment is high. With the price of a Nikon D-1X pushing $5,000 US, it is hard to afford a back up, but hard not to, with the cantankerousness of digital hardware.
Pedro, I see you writing about time being too tight to make all your self-imposed deadlines. But you are lecturing, participating in workshops and visiting friends. That time is reserved, it is why you are traveling, the diary is an add-on. The purpose of my trip, if it ever happens, would be the daily stories, the “diary”, though I had not thought to call it that before. Yes, but the things I want to write about, and the people I want to photograph...well, they will take more time too.
It would be “a grand day out” (apologies to Nick Parks) everyday for a month or so, but the further I get into it, the more daunting it seems. Perhaps it is too much, too ambitious. Maybe a daily look at everyday life around me is enough of a start for right now. I wish you luck (and enough sleep) as I follow your experiment. Maybe it will force some of the rest of us to get off the dime.
Regards,
Peter Calvin
http://www.petercalvin.com (with no daily updates, yet...)
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| Otra manera de compartir [message #1156 is a reply to message #91 ] |
Tue, 18 October 2005 20:09 |
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Yolanda Andrade - 03:06pm Jul 15, 2001
Hola Pedro,
Una vez más me te felicito por esta contribución a la fotografía y la nueva manera de compartir el viaje, la memoria, la reflexión y ver las imágenes que tus ojos vieron. También ha sido una forma de comunicarme contigo. Espero verles pronto.
Un fuerte abrazo,
Yolanda Andrade
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